ESG in jeopardy?
The latest possible victim of the economic crisis could be a 31-year tradition — and one which is especially vital for varsity lacrosse players hoping to impress college scouts — namely, the Empire State Games.
At this point, it seems the best-case scenario might be implementation of a pay-for-play system among scholastic athletes. Worst case — no Games at all.
• UPDATE 1 (Jan. 9): “State decides not to have masters/open divisions this year and to charge scholastic competitors an entry fee.”:http://www.lohud.com/article/20090109/SPORTS05/90109028/-1/SPORTS&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL
• UPDATE 2 (Jan. 10): “Local athletes stunned by cuts”:http://www.lohud.com/article/20090110/SPORTS05/901100383/-1/SPORTS&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL
The hard-working and talented Josh Thomson has a comprehensive report today in The Journal News and on LoHud.com. “Here’s the link.”:http://www.lohud.com/article/20090108/SPORTS05/901080430/-1/SPORTS&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL
After digesting the info, please be sure to weigh in with your thoughts.
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It is terrible and sad to see that sports and other extracurricular activities always seem to get punished, yet we have Gov’t bailouts for companies who still give their Ceo’s 2 million dollar bonuses. Doesn’t make sense. Our kids deserve better.
The latest update I just got on this is it will be pay-for-play, which has many people very upset, especially in urban areas.
This whole thing is a disgrace.
This is unreal…the amount of wealth in this area is sickening and yet people believe we need to ‘balance the budget’ on the backs of the student-athlete.
This country’s priorities are so out-of-whack that it would be hysterical if it wasn’t so sad.
Sad and frustrating. Suppose firstly that each high school/team should think about a contribution to help any truly needy lacrosse kid who can’t attend the game ( or where it would be a true burden) due to money. We should also consider a voluntary general fund for contributions that Section 1 parents could contribute to (mechanics, who runs it, etc ???).
No Section 1 kid should be prevented from attending such a really important college showcase.
folks are losing their jobs…people on the verge of retirement are finding their retirement funds greatly reduced and their homes difficult to sell…if it has to be a pay to play it certainly is not the end of the world. If there is such an abundance of wealth in this area, will it be that painful to write a check for a few hundred dollars? Our schools are facing substantial cuts in state funding…how can you justify paying for an event that only a few benefit from. Things are tough out there for a lot of people – while it is sad that the games have to be affected I am glad someone at the top is making fiscally sound decisions.
It will certainly be painful for families in cities like Buffalo, Binghamton, parts of Syracuse and Rochester and New York to write checks for a couple fundred dollars. The same is true in towns in the northern part of the state. Potsdam? Messena? I guarantee you that.
Syracuse – any idea why Tyler Granelli and Zach Badalucci are no longer on Syracuse’s roster posted on their web page? I wonder if they left the team/transferred? (not sure where to post this, sorry to go off topic)
maybe people in those areas will be more concerned about there being enough money in the pot for state unemployment benefits to be extended, if necessary, than money being put into empire games. we just need to keep it in perspective of what is going on, and it will get worse before it gets better. As slacrosse suggested – and I have witnessed time and time again with sports – people will band together and raise the money to make sure the kids play, I have no doubt – even in lower income areas. When my kids have played in summer tournaments where kids are coming from all over and paying their own way, there were kids from Buffalo, Binghamton, etc., as well as Katonah and Chappaqua.
LacrosseInsider,
Thought I heard Granelli was red-shirted?
Badalucco transferred to Marist and I think Granelli was either going to transfer or red-shirt. Probably because both thought they weren’t going to see much of the field as incoming freshman on a national championship team.
That sounds about right on Granelli, but I’ll find out from someone close to him the deal …
Thanks guys, I had heard that Granelli did not like the cold up there..was wondering if he transferred somewhere warmer…
According to a blog on sryacuse.com, Granellu has also left the school. It will be interesting to hear where he lands…..
http://blog.syracuse.com/orangelacrosse/2009/01/playing_time_for_freshmen_will.html#more
is it correct that if you go to a D1 school but do not receive any athletic scholarship money, then you don’t actually sign a national letter of intent? I am confused about that.
That is true. If you go to a school and are not on scholarship the coach has no issue in cutting you. You are a walk on even if you have spoke to a coach. Many players in our area say they are recruits and are going here and there and then transfer out because of the level of competition. I am not stating this about these two young men for I do not know there stories but this is common. Each year D1 teams have 50 or so guys come out and many get cut who have said they were recruited. These two gentlemen were very high level players so I am unsure what happened to them but they must have gotten no scholarship for they would not be able to leave this easily for Desko would have put them in a better situation.
OK guys … I have somewhat of a definitive on Granelli. Some of this could be old, but I think most of it is accurate.
I spoke to someone really close to Tyler who said the following:
As of very recently he’s still going to Syracuse. He’s red-shirted for the 2009 season. He’s working on his grades and is still with the team.
He is, however, contemplating transferring, but in all likelihood will remain red-shirted for the 2009 season wherever he ends up should he leave. There’s really nothing more than that so don’t believe everything you read.
He is interested in schools like Delaware, Albany, Hofstra and Towson, but just interested. No serious contact has been made with any of the schools. He’s not in love with SU the school, or the weather, etc. It doesn’t have much to do with the fact that he’s red-shirted.
So as of right now he’s sort of in a holding pattern.
Again, this is a good kid we’re talking about here so let’s try not to spread any crazy rumors. My buddy says he’ll end up somewhere and will be a very good college player. He just needs to figure out what it is he wants.
And as we know there’s really no timetable for that sort of thing.
HV should run select a team and run their own tournamentYeah.
Invite regional teams. I think that the motivation to take care of albeit critical detials like housing and costs would be handled particularly if the tournament could assure that top coaches will be there—and I think they would if top players were there.
Coaches in Section 1 should step up in some way to try and make this happen. I know they have their camps but this is URGENT for the kids they coach throughout the season!!
SOMEONE “in authority” and/or with enough stature in Section 1/lacrosse should be making a huge effort to get SOMETHING going!!**
This situation IS JUST NOT RIGHT
This does only affect the 24 or so players chosen to the team. It is horrible but most kids have been doing other things during the summer to get seen. Whether it is Hotbeds in Delaware of Showtime Camp in CT, players have been finding a way. There has been so much negativity lately to the ESG process that it is interesting to see what will occur without it. Teams like Westrock and the Ballers should have some of those players who did not play bc of ESGs.
There is always negativity, not just recently. However, Hudson Valley has medaled 2 out of the last 3 years after going through about 6 years of no medals. Last year the team lost to LI and central by one goal and beat a tough western team twice. It is a nice resume builder for a player, even as an alternate. So 30 players will be affected and there was a rumor ESG was going to add a roster spot.
I really think ny state could of found a way to keep it going. It is sad to see this olympic style ny state competition fail this year. Students and adult athletes really enjoy every aspect of it. Not just lax. Fortunately, this summer will be the summer of the travel team. Blogs should be interesting to say the least.
felix,
Do you have to be invited to showtime or hotbeds?—if so not good for probably numbers of the 24 ESG kids that would not go to these tournaments but would otherwise definitely be “seen” at ESG.
Realize that it only involves 24 players but still adds to the focus of coaches on Section 1 talent as a whole.
Guess a top talent HV tournament I mentioned just way too complicated to put together. If too late for this summer maybe people that have a “stake” in this should start thinking about something for next summer in case ESG not on again.
I dont know about being invited to either, sorry. A top level tourney is not a bad idea, but really uncertain how that would work. To play it the week that the tryouts typically were would ensure coaches could still be there as they had in the past. Maybe the varsity coaches in the area could do like was down by teh coaches commitee last year in the fall at yorktown and just have a large section 1 tourney to showcase our kids. That would not be too difficult and could be helpful. Again, the coaches were used to coming up certain weekends anyway to see last cuts at HV tryouts so just use that weekend and have a Section 1 showcase. All you need is a series of fields, like Town, Somers, Pac, etc have and refs to help out.
Thanks Felix. It’s going to be tough unless a real effort is started NOW by coaches, officials, parents, etc. Like most other obstacles in life, you can surmount them if you want it really badly enough!!
Maybe the ESG head coach from last year has an idea Coach Mcnally may want a team he can travel with as a representative of Hudson Valley and play in similar tournaments as does Westrock, No Limit etc. Still prestigious being picked and showcased at these tournies.
lax to the max
Good potential idea and wouldn’t be surprised if one or more ESG regional teams try this.
Not a bad idea but cant you see now the arguments over who should coach the team?
felix,
For sure but I’d hope that in this dire situation people would be reasonable and flexible not losing site of the goal—to do whatever is needed ASAP to get an elite HV team organized and tournaments/games scheduled.
WHICH COACHES,PARENTS OF PLAYERS, AND OTHER INFLUENTIAL SECTION 1 LACROSSE OFFICIALS ARE GOING TO STEP UP??—AT LEAST TO TRY AND SEE IF THIS IDEA (OR ANY OTHER IDEAS) “HAS ANY LEGS”.
Somehow I bet LI will figure something out for its ESG players—so should HV.
Hey, if the empires are lost, maybe they can get a quality coach in to run the team-next year. I am not bashing the guy, but maybe if they had another coach they do better?
Pete,
Dont count on games for ‘10 either. The fiscal momentum is not good.
This is bigger then the coach. A team, coach and games should be put in place for THIS summer which can be repeated, if need be, next summer.
You guys hit the nail on the head about the other regions. They will have the Players who were going to make-up those Empire teams play this summer. On LI they will play for the Express, Sting etc, in Central NY they will play for the Roadhawks etc. Albany- Albany Power, the list goes on. I suggest that the HV players start realizing where this will lead. Understanding the options is key at this point. All those of you who critisized Coach Lew, and Colsey, as well as Epic, for what they did, might have to wear egg on your face. All these guys did was give more kids a CHANCE to play and be seen.And it is not an unknown , that these guys will do there best to contact college coaches , down the road also!!
Pete,
It IS BASHING.
This coach wins a medal 2 out of 3 years and you are bashing him. HV didn’t win a medal for the previous 6 years and i believe we had a state champ in that time. We haven’t lately. 1 goal loss last year to LI and Central. Are you guys kidding me….. because people aren’t from northern westchester. Empires is lost for this year and talk of the empire coach comes up?????????????
Agreed!!! I guarantee if Coach Mcnally put an Empire team together starting with the three sophs from last years team , has open tryouts like last year and takes the top twenty his team will do very well against all other all star travel teams. Give the guy a break. Hope it happens just to quiet all the critics. I bet the tryouts will be packed.
lax to the max,
Agreed. Now the devil’s in the details of KEY people in Section 1 lacrosse getting this done. Maybe the first thing would be to contact the key tournaments to see if they’d make room for a HV team. Under the circumstances of ESG being cancelled, they SHOULD. I think the easier part would be to organize a team once everyone knows that there are TOP LEVEL/RECRUITING type games, tournaments to play in.
Also starting to get angry with the HV “host” sites that made the subjective judgement to not host the games because having kids pay was not in the spirit. Maybe true but LET THE KIDS/PARENTS decide that—not the hosts. Their stance taken on “principle” may have “cost” lacrosse and other athletes dearly.
Sla
You are absolutely right guarantee parents and kids would have voted to pay to play. I was at games last year and every kid who has the chance should experience it. Maybe it will be revisited. Only problem is no one is going to push for it because there is no guarantee of being chosen. Kind of a tough situation for kids in all sports.
SLacrosse:
No-Ones making Room for any HV team that is thrown together. No Tourney is Bumping a program that has been there before, and is committed.
R.U. Serious
The HV team would not be “thrown together” but chosen from organized try-outs. A bigger issue is the one you bring up about tournaments maybe having to “bounce” other teams that have played in tournament before.
Maybe some of these tournaments would recognize the extraordinary event of canceling the games and “make room” for NY regional (HV, Central, etc) all star team.
Hey I know I’m swimming upstream on this but just wan to put it out to see if it “catches”.
Sla
Coach Mcnally should start now if he wants the team with tryouts scheduled asap even if for now just tryout dates and apps
lax to the max
Absolutely. Given the unique circumstances and maybe compressed time pressures Coach McNally would really be an obvious choice to run with this thing.
**CAN SOMEONE “out there” that knows him PLEASE contact McNally to at least get his view on whether any of this makes sense?? He or someone like him may be able to drive the process.****
Again there is no time to debate which coach is right. HV NEEDS A TEAM TO BE SHOWCASED AND THE PROCESS MUST START NOW—PERIOD.
“CUSE” AND OTHER INFLUENTIAL BLOGGERS, PARENTS WITH KIDS
YOU GUYS OUT THERE?ANY THOUGHTS?-HOPE YOUD BE BEHIND THIS.EVEN IF YOUR KIDS ARE TOO YOUNG OR MAY NOT QUALIFY, HAVING A HV ALL-STAR TEAM IS REALLY ESSENTIAL AS A FOUNDATION TO KEEP HV “ON THE MAP” WITH COLLEGE COACHES.
Getting to the regional and state level gets your kids noticed by college coaches – coaches and parents know that is where you’ll get the best look. The box at Hofstra was filled with the top college coaches last year. Those who do not get out of the section need to pay to play on tournament teams and pay to attend camps. It’s what the non-24 kids do every year. Those kids who did not make Empires in the past had to pay up and play hard all summer while writing coaches trying to make contact. Stop crying and come up the $1,000 plus dollars needed to play as well as the hotel and travel expenses. Yes, the essence of the games is/was wonderful, but only for a select few. Welcome to the middle class folks. I know I may sound a bitter and tainted but reality is reality – no one was looking to put anything together for those who didn’t make the Empire team in the past and now you want the “authoritative” lax persons to kick it up and put something together? I’m not feeling anything it for the team – I’m just feeling it for the elite. Many kids can play in college if given the right direction, like a better understanding of where (college) they could play, would be most helpful. And stop nagging about a coach who volunteers his time – damned if you do and damned if you don’t always seems to be the theme when coaching in our section.
just a bitter,
There have been at least 2 ways for kids to compete during the summer. (1). After a try-out 20-30 kids play for HV in the ESG. Yes call it an elite team. (2) The vast majority of kids play on other teams like Westrock, the Sting and lots of other teams.
just a bitter,
Didn’t finish above.
Please stop with the “middle class” stuff.
You seem to be implying a “non-care” complaining whining attitude with ONLY a thought about ESG. I’m simply trying to keep alive a long-standing lacrosse tradition and yes it happens to revolve around an 20-30 kids picked from 90+ “middle class” kids that try-out. What,all of a sudden the SELECTED kids and their parents (who also lay out substantial sums of money) are no longer part of mainstream Section 1 lacrosse?”
I may be wrong but I ASSUME THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF SECTION 1 LACROSSE PARENTS FULLY SUPPORT THE ESG.
Has nothing to do with ignoring the substantial ongoing effort and money that parents put into their kids playing with other teams (Westrock, Sting, etc, etc). This activity is the back bone of summer activity and this and other efforts by kids and parents will indeed provide potential opportunities for college.
Also you must be referring to another blogger in terms of “stop nagging” as since last summer I’ve ALWAYS backed the Coach (but respect the right of reasonable people to disagree on a selection) which I’ve continued to do on this latest “thread”.
What you guys do not realize, is that being seen is half the battle. Unless you are TRUE BLUE CHIP, then your HS, and, OR Summer coach has to do some leg work. If they are willing to help you out then , your college chances increase. Putting a team together to help the student athelete, is not as easy as you think. Better off, finding a coach who is doing this on a regular basis.
If all the people on this blog that asked “somebody” to step up, stepped up, you`d be well on the way to getting into some Tournaments.
There is a bit of misconception about the power of the ESG games when it comes to college recruiting. By the time the games are played in July, the top D1 schools have generally finished their recruiting. They may pick up another kid or two, but that player will most likely not be receiving any $$ to play. The only kids that may get noticed that would benefit would be the 1 or 2 younger kids that get selected for the team – the majority of the roster are going to be entering their senior year and if they have not been scooped up already by a top D1, the chances are slim.
I am a parent of 3 players in this area…one already in college…and I have no desire to put any effort into making some kind of select HV team to replace the ESG game happen. I will continue to pay for camps and travel teams over the summers, and between that, my kids grades, and our hs coach I know my other two will be fine. This blog puts too much emphasis on the wrong things, and it sets some kids up for failure.
Reality
This means that your kids have never played emps or ever will. I attended last year and if you contacted all the juniors on the team I would bet that after the games they received many D1 offers.Only a handful had already committed.
sorry, but you are wrong
let me make sure you understand what I mean…there is a difference, in my mind at least, between D1 programs. If you are shooting for those at the bottom end of D1, you are right I know that kids received phone calls after empires, my son included. My comment was that the top D1 schools are done by that time. However, if those schools that are still recruiting at the time of Empires are the schools you are interested in, they can reach those coaches even without ESG, if you are good enough. So I am just trying to say don’t get into a panic over the cancellation of the ESG games, it will not have a significant affect on recruits from this area.
1st thing – making empires as a resume builder is a big thing for colleges.
2nd- All those lower Div 1 schools are going full boat with scholarships (most of them). empires are even more important. So when that phone call comes from a low D 1 school there may be a scholarship along with it. Syracuse can only give out 12.6 and all the MAAC schools will be there in about 2 years.
Your perception is not reality
my perception is just not your perception. There is room for different opinions, don’t you think? My opinions are based on what I have already experienced with one kid as I prepare for the next round. For some kids the goal is to play D1…for some it is to go somewhere with the most financial advantage…for some it is to combine playing lacrosse with going to a school they really want to go to (which may mean a D2 or D3 choice). Hopefully each kid is encouraged to pursue the path that is right for them.
While I do agree that the cancellation of ESG is sad, I just don’t feel that given the current economic climate and forecasted budget shortfalls that it is the most catastrophic thing to happen.
Another point – how many kids that did not play Empires manage to find a spot on a team through other avenues?? I know of many. If a kid doesn’t play Empires (either because he doesn’t make the team or because the games aren’t happening), IF HE IS GOOD, there are still many options available to get in a coach’s radar.
The best players get noticed regardless (Blue chippers-the best athletes), the next level below it takes a little work by your coach to help get noticed, if your coach doesn’t help, you got to attend camps, leagues, traveling teams that are reasonable and fair to get better. If you join a summer team watch out for the ME first $ coach, look around the area you know who they are. I got the big name, I’ve done this and that and are smooth talkers, but don’t teach you a lick. Be Careful
Reality
How can you say I am wrong when I was there and witnessed it first hand.My son is friends with all the emp kids and knows the story.You are just blowing smoke.Scouts on the first day filled up one set of bleachers.You seem to have an opinion which is your right but saying I am wrong without researching first is WRONG
forgive me, haven’t been on here in a long time..but the thread above is just not focussing on the the right thing..making and playing on the team is a great honor for any High School athlete, and in and of itself, sufficent to justify sadness over it’s demise. Whether or not it helps some kids get into a D1 school is moot. It may be something that we have to give up now, given competing priorities, but the concern that somehow kids won’t get into the college of their choice because of that doesn’t make sense to me. I had the great pleasure of watching HV this summer, and it was a pleasure to watch, full of emotion and passion you just don’t see (and, no, I didn’t have a kid on the team)
I would love to see the ESG come back for the simple pleasure of giving HV kids a chance to play at a very high level through out our state. I don’t think we need any other reason to push for it’s re-instatement.
Bear
You said it all
lax to the max
the “you are wrong” comment was only directed to your comment regarding my kid playing on empires. The rest is all opinions and you are entitled to yours. Mine is based on my own first hand experience through the recruitment process, direct conversations between my son and coaches, and knowledge of where many kids from the past few years are playing now. Obviously things work out differently for different people, but I originally got involved in this discussion only to say there was college recruiting going on outside of empires for those that seemed to think the absence of the games was going to greatly affect that. I hope things work out for your son as you want them to, as well as for all the other kids wanting to play in college.
OK, enough really good comments from all about pros/cons of ESG.
Maybe its already been done but do any of you bloggers know anyone of “power/influence” in Section 1 you (or someone else) could call to see if any realistic chance to get an HV team together to play in top tournaments (I dont). It would seem like Coach McNally would be a good person to start with having been thru this last summer?
lax to the max…
with a son going through the college application/lacrosse recruiting process, I’d rather talk to someone who has been through it with their kid than someone whose kids was friends with someone on the empire team. Do you really think that gives you some validation??? Have you ever spoken to a college coach? This blog has the potential to be helpful and informative…but the source of the information must always be considered, and unfortunately that is not always clear.
Guys
My son was on the Empire team and after the games has received over 40 recruiting letters and Lax Dad I have spoken to numerous coaches and paid visits to numerous colleges.So I believe that My opinion can be very helpful. I realize that players can be recruited outside Emps but it is a great recruiting tool and it is a shame that the games are in jeopardy
Why don’t you Enlighten us and tell us exactly who we should be aware of, in the summer. Sounds like you know alot. Whos got the money, and who doesn’t teach????
lax to the max,
Unfortunately this summer’s games are not “in jeopardy”, they’re OFF.
You think that a traveling HV team as I’ve called for is a real non-starter? If not, know “anyone of knowledge, influence, etc” that you could call that could offer a knowledgeable opinion on (1) formation of a team and (2)getting into tournaments. Would seem like McNally might be best bet?
Guessing maybe your kid is a senior in which case understand much less motivation to on this subject.
Hope your kid (and ALL others) has a lot of success
recruiting letters are pretty meaningless – most of the better players in this area can wallpaper a room, or at least a wall, by the time they’re done with college apps – that’s not the same as an offer to sign with a team AND receive some $$. I would never boost about the number of letters my son received because it is meaningless.
Gregg Cavaluzzi is taking a year off from coaching and is attemtpting to put a team together for the summer since he has no empire team to coach this year.
Greg is a good coach. Is it a Hudson valley team?
Find out where your kid might like to play, have your kid contact the coaches and ask where they will have someone recruiting at a camp, and get to that camp. Have your high school coach send a letter or call the coaches to discuss your ability level before you get to the camp (also ask your coach where he thinks you might be able to play, and listen to him). There are many camps that attract High level D3 almost exclusively and others that cater to division 1 programs and many others. Don’t show up at a camp where you have no shot at being looked at.
The best part about a 3 to 4 day camp is that if you catch the eye of an interested coach he can watch you at different intervals over days, giving him a better feel for your ability as opposed to seeing one shortened game at some tournament.
Do this in “both” the summers between your sophomore and junior years.
!!!!!!!ESG Games Substitute!!!!!!!
Looks like NYS ESG teams will have chance to play in Under Armour Underclassmen Tounament which has been expanded to pick up NY regional teams and others. In insidelacrosse.com see
http://insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=194796
And how many Hudson Valley guys have a shot? If it is broken up into Long Island, and Upstate NY??? Those are two of the four new areas.
HV,
Looks like you’re right. In part of the announcement I noticed a “NY” region as well as Upper NY State and assumed HV was covered.
But they HAVE snubbed HV. Let’s see, that hotbed of lacrosse, the WHOLE “midwest” has been included as well as CT/New england but not the HV!!! What area does the “midwest” encompass??? How bout “New England”.
Just cant win. First no ESG. Now Under Armour expanding but NO HV kids can play!!!
HV and Others
GOOD NEWS—Under Armour Underclassmen Tournament.
Heard from Ryan Heacock Sales Mgr of Corrigan Sports who with Under Armour is sponsoring games. He said ANYONE FROM NEW YORK STATE CAN TRY OUT FOR THE team they’re calling “Upper NY State”-meant to include anyone from NYS except for LI.
Yeah will be extremely tough to make but AT LEAST HV kids have just as good a shot as anyone else.
He welcomed calls at 410-605-9381 (f) 9389
Look at http://underarmourlacrosse.com/
Sounds like your best bet is Westrock. Showtime, and camps where you will get a legitimate look??
Shaken Not Stirred,
Yeah for sure making the NY team will be very tough for ALL NY kid but at least now getting on this type of team is a potential option. Hopefully kids will make other firm plans to be on other teams and the coaches of these other teams will understand if a kid misses time to try out for the NYS team.
There is currently a petition out that will be going to the governer to save the empire state games. Please go to the web site and put your name on the list. http://www.PetitionOnLine.com/SavESG09/ hopefully it does some good.