We're live from John Jay High School
-
- June
- 5
I just pulled into the main parking lot at John Jay High School, gang. In front of me was a van labeled “Tufts athletics.” There should be quite a few college coaches here scouting recruits as is the case every year at the sectional finals.
Today’s sectional championship tripleheader is about to get under way.
Be sure to scroll down for updates on today’s games. Though as we all know there is no cell service at John Jay, I will do my best.
Here’s the lineup:
Class A, No. 2 Lakeland/Panas vs. No. 1 Yorktown, 3 p.m.
Class B, No. 2 Brewster vs. No. 1 John Jay, 5:30 p.m.
Class C, No. 3 Byram Hills vs. No. 1 Rye, 8 p.m.
Finals preview:
This entry was posted
on Thursday, June 5th, 2008 at 2:39 pm by Joe Lombardi.
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lets get this party started.
Working folks looking for their first update! Come on Joe, 'Cuse send me a bone! Go 'Town!
don't want to rush you joe but did it start on time
Yorktown is dominating faceoffs and leads 4-0 midway thru the first quarter.
Just got a text – 4-0 Yorktown! Surprised I got anything from the field they have the worse cell reception. Come'on 'Town!
lakeland is not even coming close tonight. no way will the huskers let it go once again down to the wire
keep'em coming joe
something anything!
It's 9-0 Ytown after one. Yorktown has won all 10 faceoffs led by John Ranagan. Four players each have two goals each
joe you are the only link to us working boys what you got!
Playoff intensity makes a big difference…
wow!!! did not expect this
Ward melville WI 1-1 end Q1
2-1 8:25 left in 2Q—WI
Wow! Town has been playing a ton of late this is not too much of a surprise.
12-0 with four minutes left second
cold spring harbor upset manhasset in their sectional final last night
Thank goodness for you Joe – were not getting anything from the field!
2-1 18 sec left 2Q
cold srping harbor upset manhasset last night in the section 8 championship 12-8.
update?
Looking for detail of the half when you can Joe. Will the winner play the winner of the LI game that were getting from Slacrosse? Thanks!
It's hard to believe the score, folks, considering it was a 10-9 game in the Murphy Cup.
It's 13-1 Yorktown at the half. John Ranagan has been tremendous, dominating faceoffs (Ytown has won 13 of 16). He has four goals and one assist. Tom Casey has three goals. Rocky B has 2-2.
L/P first shot on goal came with 6:54 left in the second quarter.
Mike B. did not have to make a save till 4:23 left in the second quarter.
no they will play niskyuna
Jack Doherty scored for L/P
working folk
winner of above (suffolk) game plays Syosset(Nassau champ)-winner of that plays Town assuming Town gets there!
Thanks, Slacrosse.
any more updates????
Garden city(beat Long beach) won Nassau B and Cold Spring Harbor (beat Manhassat) won Nassau C—they all play their counter parts in Suffolk
Anyone have any updates for the Comsewogue-Rocky Point game? It would be greatly appreciated.
3-2 WI over WM in 3Q few minutes into 3Q
Garden City beat Southside (Rockville Centre) to win Nassau Class B. Syosset beat Long Beach to win Nassau Class A. Cold Spring Harbor beat Manhasset to win Nassau Class C.
3-2 West Islip beginning of second half
It's 16-1 after three. The quarter was played with a running clock. Kevin Interlicchio now has 3-1.
16-1 end of the 3rd!
Wow. What a thrashing Y Town is putting on L/P
Good sign for Town – better not peak just yet.
Unbelievable…
Great "MO" for Town going into States
4:40 to go—-4-3 WI
I nearly drove off the road when I got a text saying 9-0 at 3:30 p.m.
It's all over now — officially, at least.
Final — Yorktown 17, Lakeland/Panas 5
John Ranagan finished with 4-1, Rocky Bonitatibus 3-3, Kevin Interlicchio 3-2 and Tom Casey 3-0.
John Fitzpatrick had two goals for L/P. Keith Rodriguez had 1-1. Jack Doherty 1-0, Shawn Honovich 1-0
Yorktown will play Section 9's Valley Central at 1 p.m. on Saturday at Dietz Stadium in Kingston in the first round of the state tournament.
Saturday, June 10th at Dietz Statium, Kingston. Calss A 3:30, B
5:30 and C8pm.West Islip wins 4-3.
Post-game quotes:
Yorktown coach Dave Marr on John Ranagan:
"He's an absolute beast. He's a little unorthodox the way he plays, but he's a great player."
Ranagan:
"I really thought faceoffs were key in this game considering the way they controlled them at the end of the last game (a 10-9 Yorktown win in the Murphy Cup)."
L/P coach Jim Lindsay:
"We got outhustled, out-groundballed and outplayed. We didn't get off the bus. We started panicking as they kept scoring."
Old#24, thrashing is right – more so than I ever could have wished for. Based on the way 'Town has been playing, I think that 'Town was just stretching their legs, not peaking yet. Way to go Yorktown! I'm looking for an upset from Brewster there I go wishing again) and Rye will be victorious. Lots of cheering in Yorktown tonight! Ytown girls lax Section I champs, Ytown boys Section I champs and the girls softballers are playing right now…oh sunny day!
any word on the brewster game
LETS GO BREWSTER!!!!
We're under way for John Jay-Brewster and the Indians have scored 2:13 in as Chris Bocklet scored off a feed from fellow AA Kevin Drew
Drew scores unassisted. It's 2-0 midway thru first quarter. Chris Latino has two nice saves in goal for JJ. Zach Badalucco has won two of three FOs
3-0 JJ after one quarter
Hey Joe,
Does it look one sided? Or is it a tough game
dennis why didnt u go see the game?
Well first of all…Who are you ahaha
second not feeling so well im tryin to shake it and hopefully make the second half
hows it looking joe?????
hahaha..i knew it was u
Is that Kerrigan?
We're at halftime and John Jay leads 7-1.
Kevin Drew has been at the top of his game, scoring four goals, all of which were unassisted. He also had an assist. Chris Bocklet has 2-1. Harrison Jones has the other goal.
As you would imagine, defense has been the story of the game. Brewster did not score until 1:20 left in the second quarter when Drew Stubbs-Strouds converted off an Ethan Meyer feed.
John Jay's defense, led by James Whalen and goaltender Chris Latino, has held Matt King, who leads Section 1 in goals with 65, scoreless.
The winner of this game plays Section 9's Saugerties in the opening round of the state playoffs at 3:30 p.m. on Saturday at Dietz.
The Rye team bus just pulled in and the team made its way to the stands, led by Luke Walsh of course, to watch the second half.
The Garnets, in pursuit of their fourth straight Class C sectional title, play Byram Hills at 8.
Yorktown players spent much of the first half chowing down on some pizza while watching the game from the hill on the far side of the field.
There is a very nice crowd hear — easily more than 1,500.
The faceoff showdown between Syracuse-bound players Granelli and Zach Badalucco has not really materialized so far. Ethan Meyer has taken the last three draws for Brewster. Faceoffs are pretty much even.
In a stunning development, the John Jay concession stand is already out of hot dogs.
9-2 JJ after three. Latino has 14 saves. Drew now has five unassisted goals.
Any updates?
Final: John Jay 13, Brewster 2
I knew town was going to win, but by 12 goals, c'mon. And Islip winning was also a shocker. It should be good for town in the long road. Jay winnning today is no surprise to me and if Rye wins that won't be either.
Nick Savastano called it. The John Jay coach told me before the game that he thought Chris Latino would step up and have a big game. The senior goalie sure did, making 17 saves. JJ defense held Matt King, the leading goal scorer in the section, scoreless.
Final scoring stats: Drew 5-1, Harrison Jones 4-0, Bocklet 3-2, Andrew Masterson 1-0, Billy LaPerch 0-2, Will Stewart 0-2.
Brewster's second-half goal was scored by Brendan Donelan off a feed from Nick Alfonzetti.
Smack down central- Rye will make it 3 blowouts. Town is a force – let's crown 3 from Second 1 this year!!!
Wow, it Section 3 Skaneatles beat CBA to advance and Carthage (who is good) beat defending state champ Jamesville Dewitt. I hope all Section 1 teams get through the LI teams so I have some teams to root for. West Genny of course took the section in there class. I rooted for JJ last year in the state title game and I took some heat for it, but who cares! Go Section 1!
i take that Genny score back, they are playing right now live on tv up here.
Ricky – Thanks. Keep those scores coming.
BTW – for those coming to the final game of the tripleheader tonight, it should be noted they have refurbished the concession stand with hot dogs. They're going for $2 each with an "Athletic Director's Special" of three dogs and a soda for $6.
Interesting little tidbit. As we all know JJ has a brand-new close D unit this year. Prior to today's game, two-time AA defenseman Ryder Bohlander gave the team a pep talk. It must have worked. The JJ defense, as noted, couldn't have played better.
Other standouts on D for JJ: close defenders Ben Goldfarb and Jameson Pickel; LSM Ian DeRuiter and d-middies Harrison Silver and Mike Malara.
2-1 West Genny with 3mins left in the 1st
2-1 genny in middle second
Was at the game, JJ 13, Brewster 2. JJ D played excellent and King got totally shut down, Brewster had some opportunities but Latino, who played great, was there to make big saves. All I got to say is that there is no doubt in my mind that Kevin Drew is the best middie in the section. He went 5-1. In the first half, where he scored 4 goals, the game plan was to give it to him and make him create his own opportunities, and it worked, the Brewster D could not stop him and Drew with his amazing speed got to the goal fairly easily. And these weren't assisted goals or anything, he single-handedly created his own opportunities, all JJ needed to do was give him the ball. Bocklet went 3-2, had a very nice 1-handed catch and behind the back shot that went just over the goal. Jones had 4 goals, Masterson had a very nice 4th quarter goal, he is fast and can shoot. I believe it was James Whalen who shut down King, and overall the defense did very well. I didn't see it when it happened but one kid from Brewster got hit really hard and had to be helped off the field, he looked like he was in a lot of pain and I hope that he's ok. Granelli was relatively quiet and face-offs were about even, maybe Brewster had the slight edge but not sure. And of course, Latino came up huge and played very well, a big part of the reason Brewster only scored 2 goals. And the hot dogs were very good.
Congratulations John Jay for their 4th straight sectional title, congratulations to Yorktown also, they both played great.
We're under way and Rye takes a 1-0 lead just 2:46 into the Class C final as Rob Santangelo scores off a Sam Fulmer feed.
Byram ties it at 1-1 as Scott Green scores off a nice feed from Andrew Lohrfink with five minutes left in the first quarter.
Didn't someone say that Jay WOULD NOT win by 10 goals…......Latino was on fire tonight, he deserves the game ball (although one could make a strong argument for Drew as well)!
It seems like the entire Byram Hills student body is here and they've had plenty to cheer about. It"s 2-2 after one. Down 2-1 late in the period, Byram tied it on a goal by Stefan Carpentieri.
Congrats to Yorktown, they look unstoppable….we have two very strong teams heading into the States (and waiting for one more)....go Section 1!!!!
I'm beginning to think it makes no difference who Yorktown plays the rest of the way. This is the best offensive Yorktown squad in a long, long, long time. They usually have firepower, but not like this ….
I may be in the minority here, I but I think Yorktown is going to absolutely manhandle Nisky.
I did say Jay would never beat Brewster by 10 again. I was wrong, obviously. I'm just thankful I didn't pick Brewster to win.
Jay still has the best shot of all three Section I teams to win a state title, though Yorktown is like a bunch of men playing with boys right now.
West Islip beat Ward Melville 4-3!
Just a fun poke Syracuse! Go Town and Jay….(I never thought I would say that!)
Byram is unable to score on a man up but still leads 3-2 midway theu the second
Rye ties it at 3-3 as Rob Santangelo scores from Kevin Gordon. Scott Green had scored for Byram to give it a 3-2 lead
what is going on with the rye byrm game?
Go Rye – keep the updates coming!
We finally have a good one. Byram takes a 4-3 lead on an unassisted goal by Scott Green 2:0Z before halftime.
It's 4-3 Byram at the half. Goalie Ben Shaffer has played well and has nine saves
JJ would have had a much harder time penetrating the Brewster Defense if it wasn't for KDrew and would've relied on passing and cutting but JJ didn't have to tonight. Brewster had a nice season, huge improvement over last year's team. Hope to see Badalucco in Syracuse next year playing along with Kdrew and Granelli, who he was facing off against tonight, and the other JJ boys… they'll all be teammates soon.
FINAL: Rocky Point 7, Comeswogue 2
Kevin Gordon scores unassisted to tie it at 4-4 early in the third.
Heard a rumor that Lindsay might not be comming back next year to L/P because of the lack of school support and coaches in the program!
Fasten your seatbelts. Byram ties it at 5-5 on an Andrew Lohrfink goal
soo what is the score now?
Gordon scores to give Rye a 6-5 lead with four minutes left in the third
5-5
thanks
Rye leads 7-5 after three.
Now whats The score?
Scores please?
Rye is up 8-5 with 8:10 left in regulation.
best game of the day it seems !
Rye now leads 9-5 midway through the fourth
Score
Rye leads 9-5 with two minutes left in the fourth quarter.
is it over or is their alot of timeouts
FINAL: Rye 10, Byram Hills 5
Syracuse – what is your prediction on Rocky Point/Garden City?
This is Rye's 19 straight win and fourth straight sectional title.
The Garnets will play Section 9's Red Hook on Saturday at 6 p.m. in the first round of the state playoffs.
LacrosseInsider—I think it will be a very close game, but it is my understanding that Rocky Point and Ward Melville played a real-time scrimmage last week and that Rocky Point pretty much had their way winning by five or so goals.
Rocky Point is the great unknown. I think they will beat Garden City, probably by 3 or 4 goals. But then again, that's really a second-hand guess. There's not even a history there to analyze.
I know Rocky has two really good brothers who do the bulk of their scoring. There have to be others on this board who can shed some light.
I called Rye 10-5 over Byram, but from now on predictions are oh so hard to make …
Credit Byram Hills and coach Jeff Fritz for having a great game plan. But at the half I made a bit of a bold prediction, saying I thought the Rye defense would shut out Byram in the second half. I was wrong but not by much. Rye outscored Byram 7-1 in the second half.
The stars of the game I thought were Kevin Gordon for Rye (three goals and two assists) and goalie Ben Shaffer for Byram (17 saves).
Rob Santangelo had 3-1 for Rye, Fran Santangelo had 3-1 and Alex Prostano 1-2. Sam Fulmer had an assist.
Not too sure RP is the favorite Syracuse. They lost to Syosset 6-11, who GC beat 10-2.
Did RP really beat a WM by 4 or 5? WM is a team that killed YTown so it sounds that this RP team is real legit.
Yeah, a long time ago. Those outcomes, including Yorktown losing by 8 to Ward Melville, mean nothing now. Again, I said I don't know much about Rocky Point except what I hear from friends.
I was told they did beat Melville in a scrimmage last week.
Byram played neck and neck with them in the first half, but faceoffs were an issue all night and they couldn't seem to clear the ball in the 2nd half.
Congrats to Byrum Hills for playing tough all game. Rye has been a second half team all year, made a few adjustments at halftime and controlled the 2nd half.
when this game was close rye got a few lucky bounces and then pulled away.
they had a questionable goal to tie it at 4
moments later a shot was stopped in the middle and bounced to a rye player who then put it in to go up 5 4.
and then a cutter missed a pass and it rolled to Gordon who put it away to make it 6 5
from there rye pulled away
Final West Genny 15 Aubrun 3….Genny is tough…
Byram's downfall was they could NOT clear the ball…it was bad. The poles couldn't handle it and their middies looked tentative. Twice while down by 2 they threw the ballinto the sticks of Rye attackman while clearing. Not what I would expect of a team in the sectional final.
Just the opposite for Rye… I remember back to Wantagh when they could not clear the ball for their life, and now it seems they give the ball to O'Callaghan or Gordon and let them create on the defensive side
Congrats to Town, JJ, and Rye for their wins. Also to LP and Brewster for having strong seasons and getting to the finals!!
Rye Byrum Hills
Congrats to BH for a great season, getting to the Section finals, and really playing well and hard tonite. Were really tough in 1st half. In particular their goalie made numbers of really tough saves and Green showed great speed and moves and had a great early unassisted goal.
GO GARNETS!!CONGRATS on what ended up to be a very strong showing on both O and D, particularly in second half. In first half Rye was getting SOG but BH's goalie made some great saves. But with McCormack winning substantially all the face-offs Rye's continued dominance of possession finally paid off with their O starting to penetrate BH for a series of goals. Rye's D also made some adjustments and started shutting down BH's O. BH also started having lots of trouble clearing and transitioning the ball. Agree with Joe that Gordon was a key catalyst in Rye's effort. He can do it all! Dooley actually had him stay in and play a little D tonite!
Good luck to Town, Jay and Rye in the states!! Great "MO" was started tonite for all 3 teams!!
...
Are you serious. That 4th goal wasn't questionable. The ref was right there, and it obviously hit the bottom post and bounced back out, don't try to pin it on the officials. The game was close but Rye missed their fair share of chances as well. Byram scored when they got their chances. And they got a few questionable calls on top (Marchesani gets called for a slash at midfield when he hit stick, Fulmer got a late hit penalty when the play should have been a failure to advance…the refs inexplicably stopped counting.)
It was no mistake that Rye pulled away. They were the better team and eventually wore down Byram, it had nothing to do with lucky breaks.
Credit to Byram Hills, their fans really showed up and the team played with a very impressive level of intensity, plus Fritz had Rye scouted very well. They were going super early on Gordon, they would bring two slide guys on either side and they would recover with the guy who Gordon dodged away from. Byram played a quasi-zone/soft man and gave Rye fits for the first half.
it is a physical impossibility for the ball to go in the goal and bounce out on the opposite side. It obviously hit metal and the only metal inside the goal is the flat bottom which couldnt cause anything to bounce up in the air and out the other side of the goal
santangelo's were catalyst…..
Well L/P Parents:
You have a very good Off coach in J Linds, and you need a D guy at that level to be successful. So we chase away Vitolo( resume speaks for itself ) and Janavey (Empire coach, Def coordinator at an upcoming Edgemont program who went 15-3 , and by the way won Asst Coach of the Year in Class C ). You place a parent as the Asst coach who wrote letters that helped chase Tim Weir ( Turning around a floundering Manhattanville program ) whos kid becomes an absolute embarrassment at the end of the game losing by 12 goals and starts a fight, after being burned all game.
Hmmm, ever here be careful what you wish for.
Now you might have even lost Lindsay, who is rumored to be so frustrated with the situation, looking to leave.
Cavaluzzi out at Pville
Hopefully, Jimmy Lindsay was just frustrated with everything that happened to LP yesterday and will return. But, the school district has to step up and begin backing the boys' lax program more. Jimmy has worked hard over the last few years and has helped the local youth program grow back to the point where, in a few years, he will begin to reap some of those rewards with quality kids that are also quality players – I don't believe he will step down and turn his back on those kids. The district needs to increase its pay for head coaches and assistants in the district – or it needs to allow the parents to fund-raise to help pay for coaches. This year's assistant only stepped in to bail Jimmy out at the last minute because they could not find anyone else. One look at the sidelines yesterday showed you the difference between programs – LP had two coaches, Jay had at least eight, as did Yorktown. Maybe volunteer assistant coaches – like some teams have, is an alternative. But, finding high quality volunteers may be a hard thing to do when they can get paid to do the same job at another school.
Rye Hills game ...I'll stay away from saying anything about luck …it was a well played game on both sides. I feel Cole McCormack was a big part in Rye's win , a very big part … winnig approx 15 out of 16 face offs …hey thats 15 possesions right off the top ….some of them were just clear out clean breaks to the net . That right there is a very big advantage , so for B Hills to keep it close as long as they did …props right there to them.
At half The hill had Rye where they wanted them ,, Rye was a little fustrated. This is where the experience came in. The Rye coaches settled the team and they came out a litle more physical. The hills started to crack to the ball pressure , hence the turn of the game
Hey Hills and fans very nice job Rye Congrats.. Good luck to all section one teams ….. The Valley will be back
fun fact, this is rye high schools fifth section 1 title of the year
erik:
what happened with Cavaluzzi?
word is that he is leaving. Plenty of rumors as to why some include parents to other coaching opportunities. From all the things I have heard around here of what he goes through I dont blame him..Can anyone else confirm this? know anything?
12rock,
Agree overall and particularly with not bringing "luck" anywhere into the equation as "....." did above.
What is frustrating is the significant possesion advantage Rye often gets from face-offs but then SOMETIMES not taking advantage of this with goal production. Rye had SOG but FULL CREDIT to your goalie who really made some great saves.
Was also REALLY impressed with amt of BH fans that showed up (minus the high school kids who were lined up along fence right behind Rye and was told they were taunting the team).
Must have meant alot to the team and a real sign of the importance of lacrosse to BH
Good luck to BH next yr!
Slacroose I am not from Hills Fan Of Put Valley and yes those guys along the fence behind Rye …over the top bush league, not acceptable … thats where problems start ..aside from that again good game
12rock,
Rye and PV have had some good games over the yrs. Great coach and remember when you guys had the Aman (SP?) brothers. What a duo!
hen hud lax
Yeah the Santangelo bothers were key for Rye in scoring. Think Rye's 1st goal was scored (darn-cant remember which brother??) on a cut to goal followed by a leaping midair catch and shot. These kids have great stick skills, are lethal around the net and could have the nastiest or among the very nastiest shots on the team. Maxpreps (dont know if it includes yesterday's game) shows Robert leading Rye with 44 goals with Francis at 17.
Hey Slacrosse , The Valley is very lucky to have the men we have on the sidelines… tight crew. And yes i remember the twins my son was called up that year and played with them when the Valley won the Section. Those two guys did it all
Latino saved 15 of the 17 SOG in the JJ-Brewster game, he along with Drew were the definite MVPs.
12rock,
Unfortunately my son had to play AGAINST them!!
Section 2 is in the Dark Ages. I'd do anything for a Nisky update right now …
I just spoke to Gregg Cavaluzzi.
He told me that no decision has been reached about whether he will return as Pleasantville's head coach next season and that he will be meeting with school officials on Tuesday.
UPDATE: Niskayuna Juggernaut 2, (6-14) Shaker 1 (half)
Coach at Pville has done a decent job all things considered. Big let down this year which I am sure many fingers should point to him. I am up in the air whether he should return or not.
joe whats the nisky update
FINAL: Nisky 8, Shaker 4 (not official, but that's what I was just told in a text message)
As a quiet buy constant reader, it seems to me that section one lacrosse fans speak loudly, but carry a small stick. Here is what I mean; obviously the bloggers are all upset about the possible departures of Cavaluzzi and Lindsey, but give me a break, you all blame the districts, but voice your complaints here!!!! HELLO! Call the school districts and express your concerns to the local school boards. Perhaps these guys are not the right guys for the jobs, or maybe they are, but all of you, whether members of that district or not have an opinion and share it quite often, but share it here. I'll bet you all tons of cash that the decision makers are NOT reading this blog, but the coaches are and they would want nothing more then for you to speak up on their behalf.
Greg and Sean, I have already made my calls, if nothing else, they heard my perspective. They heard me say that the largest growing sport in the US has a hot bed in their back yard and these quality coaches need support (and dollars) in order to compete, produce and improve.
Cavaluzzi is definately responsible for making pville the recognized contender it has become in class c. But over the last two year certain things have transpired that i feel are responsible for his possible departure. One- last seasons sectional loss to ardsley which in very large part was due to a lack of preparation (something that obviously is traced to the coach). Also, this year as a whole was a very big let down. Although pville did make it to the section semi's, i'm sure the pville faithful expected so much more out of the season with a very senior heavy team. My bet is that Cavaluzzi is given one more year to prove that he is "worthy", but again, who knows what could happen these days with overinvolved parents and school districts have alternative agendas.
Parents should stay out of sports unless your going to go to college with little Johnny and hold his hand. Jim Lindsy is a fine coach and so was Vitolo, Weir and Lou but some kid that thought he was an ALL-American did not get the votes. Perhaps All-americans should be voted on by the parents. HA,HA HA,try and pull that nonsense up in West Genesse land and your kid will never see the field. Coming from a Y-Town alumini.
Cavaluzzi is the man, he coached a few of my summer lax games. He is an awesome coach and a great guy. Good luck to you with whatever happens
Section 1 – the Pville game I saw was not a great performance by the team. You can only coach so much. Remember the saying – it's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmy's and Joe's. You need talent to compete in Section 1.
A team can get by at Class C with less depth, but when you move to the power league, you need to have more than four players who can throw and catch.
I saw a couple of Pleasantville games this year and the team did not have anywhere near the talent that the parents thought it did. There were some good players but it looked like another case of Johnny's not getting a full ride to Syracuse so the coach stinks.
You can't get blood from a stone.
Sorry – but the expectations some had for the P'ville team were based upon magical thinking. They had neither enough talent nor numbers to live up to them.