Thoughts on Rye vs. John Jay
-
- May
- 8
Rye celebrates getting included in the discussion for Section 1’s best team. OK, maybe it was just a celebration for beating John Jay. (Frank Becerra Jr./The Journal News).
For several years, Section 1 lacrosse could be roughly described like this: “There’s John Jay, Yorktown, and everyone else.”
Make some room for Rye.
It isn’t only the final score, 9-8, that puts Rye into the discussion. It’s that it genuinely competed evenly with JJ for 53 minutes.
This wasn’t a miraculous victory that came as the result of fluky situations, shaky officiating, or taking advantage of some injuries. Rye was with John Jay for this game’s entirety.
In the middle of third quarter with the score tied at 5-5, I asked myself what my impression of the game would be had I not known anything about either team coming into the game. Suppose I just dropped in from another state and heard there was a big lacrosse game and decided to check it out. What would I think about how these two teams matched up?
Here’s what I settled on: Two very good, but not great teams that are relatively even. John Jay was slightly better, had a little more of just about everything—size, speed, stick skills—but the difference wasn’t dramatic. Rye was with John Jay for every step of this game. It answered every John Jay goal and usually did so quickly.
When Rye scored, it didn’t have a “I can’t believe we’re in this game” type of look. It was more that it sensed an opportunity to beat a terrific team.
Only at one point did I catch the enormity of the situation getting to Rye. It was right before the first overtime and Brian Dooley gave his brother, assistant coach Scott Dooley, a slight look as if to say “Wow. We’re so close to pulling this off.” I’m not a mind reader, but that was my take.
During overtime, I couldn’t help but get reminded of the Huntington-John Jay state semifinal game last year, won by John Jay 11-10 in double overtime. The overtimes of this game and that one were remarkably similar.
If you forgot, Huntington, the juggernaut team dominated the first overtime, hitting both the post and goalie Chris Latino’s helmet before John Jay finally gained possession in the second overtime and scored on a bounce shot.
The same thing happened yesterday. John Jay had multiple chances to win in overtime but just couldn’t get one through. And then when Rye got a chance in the second OT, it scored on a bounce shot.
Obviously, this is just a regular season game, and both these teams hope to be playing well into June. Nevertheless, this one changes the landscape of Section 1 lacrosse…well, at least for now.
I’ll have some more on this game tomorrow, in particular, what this means for these teams going forward.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, May 8th, 2008 at 9:29 pm by jgold.
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Jeff,
Very fair assessment. I wish I had been there …
Programming note: You got a typo toward the bottom. Obviously you, I and everyone else knows John Jay won 11-10 over Huntington. Stop drinking at work, man.
"During overtime, I couldn’t help but get reminded of the Huntington-John Jay state semifinal game last year, won by Huntington 11-10 in double overtime. The overtimes of this game and that one were remarkably similar."
correct me if i'm wrong but believe that should say"...game last year, won by john jay 11-10…" not huntington
Syracuse, Laxer – you guys rule. Thanks for the catch.
Do you guys have little buzzers that go off after each post?
No … c'mon man. Then we'd REALLY be pathetic.
J-Lo and I were wondering where your updates were that were promised today.
Anyway, thanks for all your contributions. You're a legend.
Wished I could have been there! Great win for the Dooley brothers and Garnets.
My connection was as tied up at his office as I am at mine. I may get some help for the Wilton game on Saturday, though.
I've been a Husker fan for many years and have not had a player on the team for the past few years. However, I am perplexed by the coaching decisions that have been made over the past few seasons.
Last year's team, admittedly a down year during the regular season, seemed to focus on the seniors and stick with them through good games as well as awful games. They were rarely substituted for – even if they were not playing particularly well. During the season, it was a painful process with the Huskers losing to teams that they had never lost to in their fabled history. However, the boys put it together by season's end and made a great run. I guess they bonded through the consistent coaching philosophy that they would play through it and learn from it together.
This year's team seems more helter-skelter in that many of the players (seniors and underclassmen) are on a very short leash. This has been evident on attack, defense and d-middie. Interestingly, this "short leash" seems to be used inconsistently as some players seem to get taken out after a mistake while others make several errors yet remain on the field for the entire game.
This year's team is very inconsistent despite an impressive won-loss record. You never know which Yorktown team is going to show up – the one which handily beat Chaminade and Saint Anthony's or the one that was trounced by Ward Melville and Darien. This inconsistency parallels the manner in which the boys are treated (coached). Apply the same standards and expectations to every player on the team, make these very clear to each and every player, explicitly communicate the consequences for failing to meet these standards and expectations and let them take the field. I am sure that the results in this scenario would be much more consistent.
Being a former coach, I considered myself a failure if I removed a player from a game and he was not fully aware of the reason. Furthermore, I would discuss with that player what he needed to do to correct the flaw and put him back on the field to see if he got it. He would not remain on the sideline until the next game or until the last few minutes of that game at which point the connection between his error and the adjustment discussed is ancient history.
Although I am a Husker fan, I think if this inconsistent "short leash" mentality persists, this team will not make the run they made a year ago.
very good win, rye is awesome. -giueseppe franco
Objective Observer and all who are doubters of the town staff…
I assure you that this well educated and talent group of lax coaches knows exactly what they are doing.. For those of you who are so quick to forget, this staff was the same that brought home a title with a team that was "rebuilding"
And if anyone thinks for one minute these men don't go above and beyond LAX with these kids you are seriously mistaken. These men have been with most of these kids since 2nd grade and are teaching them more lesson then lacrosse. They treat them like family. Unless you are the one standing on the sidelines or around the coach after the game you have know idea what they are saying to their players. Objective observer… you should really stick to the facts..
Back to the Rye jj Game … did anyone notice a blogger named coco called this game ( score) the day before …nice job coco
Rye fans congrats on the win …. hard work and playing together as one has payed off enjoy you folks in Rye deserve it …to the Jay fans it's not the end you know you will bounce back …it had to end some time … this is what makes sports the best … my saying is on any given day!!!!!... so for the up coming games and other teams in C div remember on any given day ..play it hard
murphlax,
Here are some facts.
I am a Husker fan and supporter – full stop.
The education and talent of the YHS coaches was not challenged. I merely differ in opinion on their inconsistent application of substituting some, not all, players who make errors and the learning from those errors.
The youth level (YAC) is coached by volunteers who are not the YHS varsity coaches. The youth exposure to the YHS varsity coaches either comes through a summer camp or in a classroom where they would be a teacher.
Lastly, the treating like family impression that you have might be your personal experience or even hearsay. I know of many instances where the boys have been emotionally drained and defeated without knowing specifically why they ended up at the end of the bench or with little playing time. Some of these boys have totally dedicated themselves to the sport and bleed Husker green and deserve better.
Thank goodness I am not dealing with this currently.
being a former player of these coaches I would say that they tell each player what they did wrong and how to improve upon it….if a player does not know why he is sitting, he is not listening….some of these kids have grown up thinking it is their right to win bc they are Town….Hard work from every player up and down is what is taught…they always use to talk about 35 guys and each is as important as the next….you dont see practices where ball movement and disciplined defense is taught and taught…if a short leash has occurred, it is most likely from a repeated mistake….besides the fact that even in '03 when we won, we were not deep and some kids on the 2nd line could barely catch and throw…although town is good each year, it is never deep….they do a good job….they try to teach life skills, teamwork, etc….we may differ on their philosophies but these guys were coached by turnbull, seaman, edell, vitolo, haus, etc…so we must give them the benefit of the doubt….good luck to them as they gel towards a hopeful championship..dont get lazy, work and you will see the rewards….hard work won it for us…
Town lax,
Congratulations on your 2003 state title. I concur that all 35 players must bring it to every practice and every game. If they do not, they should be watching the boys who do.
It should apply to each player equally.
WHAT??? COCO called it 9-rye 8-jj on May 7. Got any good stock tips?
Think they do that but you may disagree and that is fine. Remember they teach in practice and if players dont do it time and again, they will sit. I remember in '04 our whole def getting benched for most of darien game and we won so i would say they try to teach and motivate in games, practice, off field, summer ball, fall and winter ball in teh gym and on the soccer field….You may disagree with tactics, but they have been taught by the best and some players think they know best..wait till they get to college and learn that the coaches could care less about waht you have done and will be blunt as could be with you at times and shun you at others….life lessons i think….good luck town
Rye would beat town
Well, one good thing for JJ came out of losing to Rye yesterday. Now IF Town beats JJ next week, at least the JJ fans won't have to listen to all the Townies brag how they broke the 47 game Section 1 win streak. That should give all you purple people at least a little comfort.
and people said that Jay would beat Rye, so there. It's a relatively safe thing to say – since there isn't another game scheduled, right?
at least they won't laxwatcher. I've seen lots of bragging by Jay and Rye bloggers of late.
LTL – Yeah it goes in cycles. Everybody is a litle out of control on this from time to time.
Laxwatcher – you're right. I think when any team has played well, it's great for their fans or admirers to give them "props," and Rye and Jay ARE great teams. But recently, every time a fan rightly talks one of them up, they seem to also shred 'Town (by name)in the process….bothers me, cause, win or lose, I love 'Town lax!...
All these negative comments about Yorktown remind me of when Mets fans always have something negative to say about the Yankees. Not related unless they are playing head to head, but people love to hate on a winner. To all you Town fans, you know what you have, the tradition, the pride, one of the best programs historicaly around. Give props to the other teams in the section when they rise but always be proud og your own kids! I know someone who has a son on the team and those kids in Town are under a good deal of preasure to "live up" to the past, but they love it and work hard. You can't win every year.
Rye would lose to JJ 9 out of 10 times…Jay is a great time that had an off day…as for the rankings…. 1)TOWN 2a)Rye 2b)JJ…... and lax fan, (yes we can win every year
Town has big game at home today i believe vs Wilton, always a scrappy , dirty game between the two…
We often forget this is the Jim Turnbull Cup. It may not have the stature of a Murphy Cup game, but there's no question it should. Lots of pride on the line here …
Laxxxin3456,
If you really believe Jay would beat Rye 9 out of 10 times, remind me not to bring with you with me to Vegas any time soon.
laxxxom3456-are you really gonna start up another arguement saying JJ had "an off day"...give me a break. Both teams played well and RYE came out on top. Dont give me JJ had an off day. What are you friends with the town coach, ripping on rye saying the rye/town game shouldnt have been close at all. Unlike the John Jay coach, who just said it was a great game and gave no excuses.
Give him a break, he's just stating his opinion, which to me seems fairly logical. JJ will come out on top most games, I don't see how anyone can question that, but nice playing by Rye. Not sure if JJ had an off day, I wasn't at the game, my brother was though, and he said it could've gone either way. But after watching both teams play a few times, I agree in the most part with laxxxin. JJ is a better team, but not sure if they will win 9 out of 10 but definately most of the time.
I do not believe that at all, jj would not win 9 out of 10 times. If rye played them again it would be another close game. Stop saying jj had an off day, both teams played hard, i dont care what u say about them having an off day…RYE IS SICK nothing else has to be said
Yeah rye is great I didn't say JJ would win 9 out of 10 or they had an off day but JJ would win most of the time.
Well, they may win 9 out of 10 times, but, guess what… Rye won 1 out of 1 times, and that's all they can do. Unlike Yankees-Red Sox, who play 18 times a year, Rye and John Jay will only play once. So you can think about what may happen if they play more games, but that's all just conversation. The only thing tangible is 9-8, in favor of Rye.
Congratulations to Rye on a great season and a huge win. The competitiveness and high quality of section 1 lacrosse was on display in their game against John Jay.
I would like to clarify something that has bothered me for the past few days. As a blogger, I primarily come here to read the different comments. I rarely post anything but if I do, it is always under my name and it is always positive.
My family have been avid supporters of Yorktown lacrosse with my wife organizing the fund raiser for the past few years.
I believe our dedication and support for the team and the coaches does not merit questioning or skepticism.